Episode 16. Jona Christians: A Solar-Powered Drive Into A Co-Owned Future
Tessa Wernink:
[00:00:22]
Welcome to Episode 16 of What If We Get It Right.
I'm Tessa Wernink, a social entrepreneur, and I've teamed up with Impossible, home of planet centric design. Together we bring you stories about how to build businesses that can move the world in a new direction. Today, I speak to Jona Christians who is the CEO and co-founder of Sono Motors. Together with his team, Christians is building the first electric car that charges itself. Their goal is to facilitate truly sustainable mobility for everyone.
Jona Christians:
[00:00:57]
The mission of Sona Motors is a world without fossil fuels. That's what we are going forward and how we're doing it. We are building an affordable, accessible car, that's made for the daily commute for the day to use. And it's a family friendly car with 255 kilometers range, but it has that unique feature, solar integration in the whole car body.
And with that, you are independent from the charging infrastructure for more independent from touching infrastructure. So people all over the city or all over the country can drive the car without the need so much for charging point.
And we're doing that by an amazing team, and by having a lot of experts from the automotive and the solar industry and combining these two industries. And we started so around five years ago with building out the team and by now we are 120 people and located in Munich.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:01:58]
The car, the Sion is still in prototype mode. But has already been pre-purchased or reserved by 12,000 people.
This isn't just an electric vehicle, but what they call a solar electric vehicle. For their design, Jona and his team have chosen a one size fits all approach. No, of course it's a car and there wasn't any car out there like it, when they first started building. But it's also a means to an end, once it's on the road, it won't just take up space, but could become a hub for storing and distributing electricity.
It aims to spur people to start sharing rides and the company is designing co-ownership into the products. The business is building a platform for future vehicles, and want to encourage a hub for DIY maintenance through an open service system. When corporate businesses talk about making production sustainable, they mostly refer to how they will minimalize their negative impact on their production processes.
Some of them will look beyond at the ownership phase and see how to make materials last longer in the hands of consumers. For Sono Motors, offsetting production is a no brainer and embedded into the price. The real question is what other impacts can a car like this achieve ?
At the heart of this challenge lie several issues, not just energy and how to power our mobility, but also ownership versus access, corporate versus community design, a status symbol versus a reliable vehicle and how we want to use our precious public space.
With everything I had read about Sono, I couldn't wait to hear how this team has set up a multimillion-dollar business. I welcomed Jonah to the show and asked him what problem their team had wanted to address and how they had started.
Jona Christians:
[00:03:53]
That's a good question. Well, 2012 it was when we started the whole project and we had a phone call and, so two of us, Lauren, my co-founder and me. We had that phone call where we discussed in detail our dependency on oil and crude oil.
And it was, we were not the car guys. We were not thinking about cars first, but our dependency promoted in our society. And we then started to think about solutions. Where we also could address the bigger masses, where we also could address people that feel kind of left out. You know, a lot of times you have like the early adopters who can quickly adapt to things, but what about the people who are like, yeah, I want to do that change.
But what are the products for? And that's what we focused on. So, on daily practical product, and of course, then we looked at the different sectors. And mobility is the biggest contributor when it comes to burning fossil fuels. So, 60% of all the fossil fuels are burned in transport sector. And that's why we looked into that.
And then we came to the cars, but it was really a step by step. We started with the problem of crude oil and then landed at the car.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:05:12]
Yeah with a focus on like how to come up with a solution for as many people as possible or step in, that they could be part of the solution. How does Sono Motors differentiate?
Like how do you see these people, as your collaborators or competitors? Can you tell me a little bit about the market?
Jona Christians:
[00:05:30]
Yeah sure. Well we do see our market in a total change around. The whole industry is changing and there are companies in that were there a hundred years. And like, we have a lot of these big companies there and they really like big ships. And we had small ships in the past, but really to see these small ships scale. That happened with Tesla and the last time, right. And that was 10 years ago.
And it was because of that reason to have now electric mobility is starting where everyone starts from zero, from scratch. Now we have, as you all already mentioned a new kind of mobility, which is a solar electric mobility. And we see here in Europe, we see two companies.
So that's Light Year from the Netherlands and us and we also see in the U.S they are Aptera they are called and some other, and even Tesla now is saying they want to integrate solar on their trucks. It's like on large scale, you see small flowers popping up here and there, and, and we are one of them, but how we do we see this other well, we can only welcome them.
I mean, really to see Light Year and also see Tesla is for us, first of all, confirmation. It's a good path to go. And also, I mean, we are producing a hundred million cars per year worldwide, and to see at least a couple of them with the integration of solar is part of our vision. So, we see them as part of the whole thing.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:07:07]
Before we veer off and you've told me a little bit too much about the future, and it's hard to ask that question again. I always ask you just, if you have an audience who cannot see the future and you have to describe it, like from now, when you have achieved your goal with your car, can you paint a picture and tell us what it looks like?
Jona Christians:
[00:07:29]
For sure. So in the future, we are still using mobility. We're still trading with other countries, but we also see that we have different needs for different countries or cities and stuff. So a lot of the organization is happening with the communities itself. So we are community driven company and we work together a lot with our community, which has by now like 12,000 people who reserved the car already.
And a lot more people contributed in one or the other way in its own history. And we see that community thinking all around, like communities inspiring each other. And when it comes to mobility, then also communities that work on mobility concept, which are electric and shared. So overall our vision at Sono Motors is to have a world where every vehicle is electric and shared, and that's what we’re working for, and we see this as part of the future.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:08:31]
Yeah. So actually, one of the other problems we are also looking at is ownership and what ownership means when it comes to cars and getting around.
Jona Christians:
[00:08:41]
Yeah, for sure. I mean, we see this happening right now. We are already doing a lot of projects out there to test this community thinking and sharing and we see people will say, yeah, I do own that car and I want to share it with a lot of people and eventually to come there, it's a step-by-step process, I think, but to come towards a future where we say, I don't have to own a car, I can share it with like 20 people all around me, but that's one important thing. We see the future as being that decentralized community building.
And mobility, right? Where you have people thinking like, okay, I share now with 20 people.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:09:15]
And if you look at that long road ahead and you say there are lots of steps to get there. Can you tell me, like in the seven years, I know that you've been working personally in the five years you've been established as a company.
What are the things that you can tell that make you see that you are getting there? And, do you measure these things?
Jona Christians:
[00:09:35]
That’s a good question. We started eight years ago with the first prototype, and we built that by hand, just to test out the technology and see what are the main problems, the main hurdles when adapting to the new mobility concepts.
And we also figured out we want to take the people by their hand. And that's also how we, like how we measure ourselves against we say we want to offer something that takes the people by their hand and says, yes, I know you want to have the change too. That's our basic assumption. And how do you measure it?
Well, first of all, we have then our community, people who already bought the car, drove the car and we also have a lot of events. So, and for me, this is not a measure point you could say, because that's like, you cannot measure emotions from the people you get there, but that's the excitement that what also drives us all around, like to meet the community and see how much these people want to have that change happen.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:10:38]
Yeah, cause it's good to note that you are eight years, you say ahead in this company and actually you have been building prototypes. So, it's also like I have my previous guest was also still in a prototype phase and it wasn't even allowed her product yet. So, there's also like raising funds, which is what you've already done as well.
Like that's also showing that there is an interest from the community. Can you tell me, where you are in your kind of startup to established company with an existing market?
Jona Christians:
[00:11:10]
I think we, at the point how I observe it is really now becoming like that adult now becoming like grown up, because we started five years ago, three people, five people being very, like very tight and strong committed team. It was more like a connection of friendship. I would say today, looking back.
And it's not like today, we, there are a lot of friendships still happening, but it's different. It got to a point with 120 people. Where there's a lot more of also structure there. So, we had to find that also holacracy was on one topic, how to organize ourselves.
And in a phase we are now with a car is we have now just finished the second prototype stage. We presented that beginning of the year on the SES, which was online this year. So in terms of development, vehicle development, we are still in the midst of the development, but this year is going to be crucial year to sign the design and engineering details of, and then start to kick off the production tooling and so forth.
So, you could say things are getting now more and more concrete, but at the same time, we also define much more ourselves as a company in our structure.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:12:35]
You were telling me when we first spoke about how, what that moment was for you when you realized that it was really serious.
Jona Christians:
[00:12:43]
So we got people on board. The first people were like us a little bit older, maybe but more or less independent, right? No family yet and so forth. And then came the first person with a family. Well, there's some small child and it's funny suddenly in that moment struck me and it was in now, things change. Suddenly you see a person and you know, there's a family behind it and suddenly, yeah, it felt different.
Looking back and it's one of these moments that have really, for me, had an impact to say, wow, okay, now we are in a different stage. There was another point. I got a bunch of pictures. I thought what is that? And that is from a three-year old who painted a lot of pictures from the Sion and showing how you want, like, you know, pictures from a child.
But it was for me, like how crazy that's a three-year-old that's really as excited, like the next generation now thinking even about the next generation of cars. And that is what I think really excites me because then I think about the next 20 years and how that small child will have an impact on the world.
That's crazy.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:13:59]
What I really liked reading is that you’re institutionalizing like a new category of car, right? You're showing the world also what is possible. And this is showing you that a three-year-old now sees that this is a new possibility to have a solar powered car. I think there's also a with every startup anyway, but definitely one that is complex like yours. It's a lot of uncertainty. And now with the past year with COVID and the lockdown, there's been more uncertainty. Can you tell me how you cope with uncertainty and like such an unpredictable world?
Jona Christians:
[00:14:33]
When we started in 2012 told no one about the project, because we ourselves were like, we have no idea. What will come out of it, but we want to prove it to ourselves. And that always that's like kind of like built in our DNA by now that all is focused on the next milestone. And that gives us the confidence to say, we know we get to the next milestone. And what happens after we will focus after. So also like looking back to the past year,2020, we knew what we had to do, and this was the next prototype generation.
And that's what we were really focused on. Even when in the mid of 2020, it became clear. This will take longer. COVID 19 will impact us for far longer. And this will also have an impact on our funding activities or might have an impact on our finance activities. And we knew we had to be very cautious.
We still focused on this next prototype generation and that gave us at least, you know the confidence to say, well, we get to the next milestone and to the next and to the next.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:15:38]
Yeah. So, it was one of the one step at a time is really a, it's almost like a motto in how you deal with it.
Yeah. So, tell me about this car? Cause I feel like we're missing a little bit of a, like an image of this car for our listeners.
Jona Christians:
[00:15:50]
So yeah, we have one veteran it's called the Sion. It's a family friendly car, and you can imagine it has five comfortable seats. It has a big trunk and you can mention normal looking car. It's black. It's a one color, but if you get closer to it, like one meter away. You see something that is a bit shiny on the outside skin of the car. And this is our technology, polymer based, solar integration and it covers the whole car body. So not only the roof, but the whole car body. And it's like smooth integrated.
That's our technology there. But when you get inside of the car, you again, have a very standard looking car. It's more minimalistic. So not a lot of buttons and stuff. And it's just, of course, with an electric car, just comfortable to have the silence, right. I had to drive around. It's a bit sporty also, like an electric car itself has a lot of like momentum when speed up, but it's also not that sports car.
So, it's just, you can imagine a family friendly car that has that bit, a little bit of extra drive when you went to have a bit of fun.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:17:02]
And how does it work? The solar charging?
Jona Christians:
[00:17:06]
Well basically you can imagine as soon as the sun hits the solar cells, it starts charging. And especially in European countries like the Netherlands or Germany, it highly depends on the weather of course, but we see numbers in Munich up to 35 kilometers per day, are possible to charge just through the sun and it charges like wherever you are. And even during the winter time, it's still sufficient. So, you could say overall in average, throughout the year, you can hit even the 5,000 kilometers per year. Just by sending around like it's free energy, right?
Of course, you can still charge at a charging station, but it's that free energy, clean energy that makes it unique.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:17:56]
So, an electric vehicle already exists and now humankind is moving into solar electric vehicles. I did some research into the development of solar and stumbled upon what business refers to as an experience curve.
It is basically the same as what we all call a learning curve. But when applied in business, it shows that the relationship between how proficient someone is at a task and the amount of experience they have can make a certain technology accelerate very fast. First pioneered in economics by TP Wright in 1936, he described the effect of the learning curve on production costs in the aircraft industry.
He came to realize that the more often a complex product was assembled the quicker and cheaper the next product became. When it comes to solar and photovoltaic cells, the learning curve in this past century has been incredibly steep. In the 1970s, solar panels cost a hundred dollars per watt, which meant you needed $10,000 to produce enough power for one light bulb.
By 2016, the price had dropped half a dollar a watt. In other words, the learning curve is steep if for every output, the cost falls significantly. And the output of solar cells is increasing incredibly fast. According to the BBC between 2012 and 2016, the world produced a hundred times more solar cells than it had before 2010. Batteries are going along a steep learning curve, too.
One might say that the chances of producing vehicles that can start to go fast and far, this century is high. And while it takes energy and precious materials to make solar cells, wouldn't it be great if all the vehicles on your street that just sit there most of the day, actually gave back to the grid.
So affordable and clean energy is the number 7 Sustainable Development Goal. I wondered how Jona and his team use it to influence their design and run their organization.
Jona Christians:
[00:20:01]
First of all, on the sustainable development goals themselves, I would position us of course, with the 7, so energy and mobility, SDG 7, but also SDG 11.
So I said it before, like community cities, to change these ones, we see that the crucial part of that is the car. When you look at cities, like they're all over the streets and the cars, and we have to find solutions there too. So, our goal is only there reached if we have all the cars in the street, on the street, electric and shared.
But we also have people in the team defining for themselves. So like in the footer of the email, you see people in the team defining their also personal sustainable goals, what they focus on, which is quite nice.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:20:50]
You’re not only creating a car that runs on clean energy, but that the way you produce it, and the result itself is almost a source of clean energy.
And I thought maybe you could talk a little bit about how that works cause you also offset in your production and you can use it as a charging device.
Jona Christians:
[00:21:08]
So two things to that, the first one is like the upstream, like how's the car produced where we look at, what can we do there? And we had now just recently announced the Fair Cobalt Alliance.
So that's like Fairphone is also in there and a lot of other companies where we get directly to the source of the materials, and find out how we can make the whole supply chain better, which is great then also for the other parts of the vehicle. We look at the whole supply chain and offset what we cannot reduce.
Like the first one is to reduce as much as possible, but we cannot reduce what we offset. So every car is like shipped is already compensated on the CO2 it admitted to production But when it hits the street, then also things get interesting, right? Because then people start driving it then even with this solar charging which is then dependent from the individual person.
But let's say 15,000 is the average in Germany, through that 15,000, 5,000 are charged through the sun. The question is still when do the other 10,000 come from? But one idea that we could contribute also with our way of designing the product, was that we established a feature that combines two things, the one is the solar charging.
So, the car is standing around. Let's imagine also you're on vacation and standing around for two weeks and it's fully charged already through the sun. What happens if it was to charge further, but the battery is full, right. Normally you would shut off the solar charging and it would become a normal car you could say, but we said, no, we want to make use of that resource.
And then integrate something that we call a bi-directional charging system. And what that is, it gives you the possibility to give the electricity, to other vehicles, to devices, even when you're on the lake or wherever we are, or even when you're on vacation, standing around other people can connect right in charge to their devices or other vehicles.
And it also goes in the direction, I think a lot of other companies are also going right now. So there's vehicle to grid, like to be a buffer battery for renewable energy is integrated, to make sure we all also keep that in focus. So we don't need so much of other gas or power plants and so forth, but that's what it's very important to us to make use of these resources.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:23:50]
My son often says we should just get rid of all those cars and I admire his radical mind, but we live in a city and we aren't so dependent on cars in our daily lives. But I do wonder what he would think of this future. There would still be cars on the street, but rather than just being big, heavy units that take up playing space next to the pavements, they would be energy hubs, powering each other and the houses and who knows even the playground. They would give back instead of just take and everyone could use them.
Jona is a young entrepreneur. In fact, he built his business straight out of school. I wonder what drove him to reimagine the world around him. I forget that there is a huge population of entrepreneurs who have grown up knowing nothing else than the threat of climate change, speeding towards them. I asked him to go back to when he was a little boy and tell me how he looked at the planet as a child.
Jona Christians:
[00:24:48]
Well, it's a beautiful question. What are the things that inspire me? Well, first of all, it's nature, I think that has had a huge impact, being in contact with nature and still today, I think it's so important to keep that connection, to always know why we're doing it for and why it's so beautiful.
But I know like, okay, I was like 15 or something. I read the first article from, in the newspaper from my father about climate change. And I just read it and I was like, what's happening there? It was a small article. It was like, why is this only so small? And why are they like deep debating about it. If it's like, if it sounds physical. I know I was so puzzled by it that I then started for whole year. I had the possibility in my school to focus on that project and understand the physical background of the climate change and then understand why, okay. It is physical, but still it's used as a political thing, even though it's not.
It is yeah. Well, the planet survives or does not survive. You can obtain that simply by saying no, but yeah, that's, I think what made a huge impact then to read that article and figuring out like, wow, okay, this is really happening.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:26:12]
And you said you'd started up companies before this one.
So, it sounds like you're entrepreneurial in that sense. And what is if you were distilling yourself into a quality, like, if this is your, like, what is the thing that is, what would it be?
Jona Christians:
[00:26:32]
If I would distill myself to one core value or quality?
Gratitude. I mean, here's my thing. Gratitude it's for sure. Gratitude. Gratitude is what kicks me out of every situation to be like, Yeah. I mean, okay, here's the thing. Let's go in detail and personal, but how I, like on every day practice gratitude, or also to stay humble is the most simple thing. When I stand below the shower or in the shower, when I'm standing in the shower to drink out of the shower, because you know, there's drinking water.
And in that moment, it hits me like it's a continuous learning. I never stop learning that, but it's like wow. How precious is that? I mean, how really, what a luxury to have drinking water coming out directly of that.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:27:25]
Beautiful. I yeah, I think I am at this point where I think so you see the world and nature, and you're actually quite grateful.
So, what was that journey for you from school to where you are now? How did you get interested in building cars or dealing with a business as a way to address problems?
Jona Christians:
[00:27:44]
So, we started doing school already over the project. So, it was 12th grade that we started and we at least three years in the garage or in a different room, but it was like really closed up for ourselves.
We were told no one, not our parents, no one about it, but we had found it then another company to find a civil thing. And so, it was more like from a need that we saw the need to make money in order to finance a project. And it was like, again, a step by step. It was never the big thing that we said, like, we want to have like a lot of companies or no, we just sort of like, what do we have to take in our hands and what can we take in our hands at the moment?
And that's why we found these other companies, but they're really simple. They were really like, we worked on the weekends with these companies to make the money. And during the week days we then worked on the car. But yeah, it actually, then the whole thing changed 2016 when we met also Navina, the co-founder and together with her in beginning of 2016, we, we found the company.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:28:56]
So it was actually basically straight out of school, you've been working on this for?
Jona Christians:
[00:29:00]
12th grade. We started off planning and so forth but we were young at that time, but we already wanted to work together with suppliers. And so we called the suppliers 10 o'clock in the morning in the break in school, because we thought if we called them in the afternoon, they know we are just, you know school boys.
That's why we called them at 10 o’clock. So, they thought, Oh, okay. I really wanted to get that also as an anecdote, because I think that's so important too, to see it. It has been a story with two boys, but then it grew, and by now it's like, of course we are still part of the company, but it grew into something way bigger than ourselves.
And that is what I'm like really grateful, what I feel gratitude for, to witness that every day.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:29:48]
Yeah I just, before I go there like, cause it's a serious company and I'm impressed by your ambition and like how you said on it step-by-step so I would really like to talk about you, like you said, some of the things that were, have been real challenges and some of the things that are successes going forward because it’s a difficult process. I've understood. But what is one of the questions I like to ask is like, in that process, who has been kindest to you?
Jona Christians:
[00:30:18]
Wow. Again such a good question. So yeah. End of 2019, beginning of 2020, we were actually like kind of running out of money.
Either we sell the company and also like sell the basic idea behind it or let the company die. And we were standing at that point and we were like, okay, what to do now? And in that moment, something crucial happened because we thought like, where do we come from? And we started with the community and that moment we knew there's only one way if it can survive.
Then it's together with these people and we went out, we told the people our story. We told them also what happened. And we had no idea when we went live, how people would react if they say like, okay that's it. Or if they say no, we go through it. And they went for second.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:31:12]
Kindness, always an underestimated value in business.
But now it's time to move on from dreaming and purpose and to get down to practice. When is this car going to be sold? Where are they making it? And with whom? And also, how do you grow a business to 120 people in five years? What have the success has been so far and how can we as a community help out?
So, you're now in the process of the second prototype, you're going to make that car, these people have invested what's the next step?
Jona Christians:
[00:31:46]
So the next step, first of all, for these people also important is we will offer or we will go into it again, which is a prototype. So we will travel all around Europe again and show this car to the people. So starting in couple of months, and all during the summer, we will have that tour to show the car. So it's, then the possibility is there to touch it and, and, you know, to experience it. But for us internally, we will have, this year, the design freeze. So all the parts in the car are freeze. And then we will kick off the tooling and to start the whole production process
Tessa Wernink:
[00:32:26]
And you're making it in Sweden I read?
Jona Christians:
[00:32:28]
Exactly. Yeah. So we have great partners there. It's in form of some factories and it's also part of all thinking right. To make use of what has already been there.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:32:39]
That's the product and the production cycle and like all the technology that we've talked about. But in the meantime, you've also set up a business of 120 people.
Can you tell me, how do you know, how do you hire so many people? What type of people do you surround yourself with and what role do mindsets play when it comes to building a business?
Jona Christians:
[00:32:58]
Oh, big one. I mean, I would say all of these 120 people in different shapes and different colors, but all of them want to change something.
And they worked for 20 years, maybe even in the automotive industry or other sectors. And they are just, you know, sick of just, you know, developing one screw or something. No, they want to really be part of the change. So that's a basic mindset, I would say. Otherwise, yeah, it's also that other mentality, say rather to stop something with what you have in your hand or what you can do instead of like pointing to others and say, oh, these and not, that's why we cannot do it.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:33:41]
No we started. How much do these new forms of organization play for you? Is it something that you're testing, experimenting with? Do you use them?
Jona Christians:
[00:33:51]
I would say, there is no blueprint out there for a company like us or. In general, I would say. Right, but to be inspired a lot. And we also talked about inspiration.
So that's also something that from the very beginning was making us up or was the reason why we shaped the way we shaped. Was, we got inspired a lot by other companies and perforin was one of them in the very beginning, a huge inspiration that community thinking. Also, to have like surveys with the community about even small stuff, but also bigger stuff was inspirational. And of course, the whole thing about where do the minerals come from?
So yeah, I think we read all these concepts or some of these concepts, not all of them, but some of them, and we'd just get inspired and we think like what could be fitting or whatnot. And we, by now we had that really intense phase last year in 2020, we call it the reorganization where we introduced new concepts.
And by now we like kind of like getting the fruits out of it and, and get into that new structure. But a lot of these concepts have been, or are not part of Sono.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:35:08]
Yeah. I guess one of the things that’s impossible that, make this podcast where it says we don't just need new products.
We need new companies. What are the three challenges that you see that you have when you look at building this company and this product?
Jona Christians:
[00:35:25]
First of all, funding for sure, money is especially in our sector, right? It's not software that we scale up now it's a hardware product. So, for sure, that's one of the biggest challenges there.
But also, especially when we are now scaling up and in this year, we will also scale up by again, 50 more people, 70 more people. So, it's also to keep the very core, while making sure we evolve. Still keeping our core purpose, our understanding, our values. And especially in these times when we separated through, you know, remote working, it's not that easy.
I would say it's really like, we had a tough time. I remember like in June, July, last year, when felt like what's suddenly happening, like we work on everyday tasks the way we did before, but something is missing and I would now describe it as that energy that comes when people like working on it and feel it energy.
It's like, yeah, it's something that I would say is a challenge right now to compensate. We found our ways to come to it somehow, but I would still say that's a challenge.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:36:35]
You have your users or the, your, maybe even your customers or your community, as you say and also the industry. So, I guess the question is like who in the industry needs to see you to make your impact grow?
And how can the community, what are the smallest thing that someone can do to help you as a business?
Jona Christians:
[00:36:57]
So, we see if we can be an inspiration for other companies that is already part of our mission, because we were inspired a lot also by other companies. And I would say the whole automotive industry that we had and that we have at the moment, Germany and all around the world is not part of the change, right. But we have to move faster and also adopting new thinking, especially also in terms of solar energy and integration in the car body is something that would make a huge impact. Not only on us, but I think on the whole mobility sector. So of course, to see this automotive industry being impacted now by sort of electric vehicles is something I would see there.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:37:42]
Yeah, and what would make it accelerates, do you think? Is it a consumer thing that think that technology needs to be cheaper or the cars, or is it more money? Where does the money go?
Jona Christians:
[00:37:59]
I would, I would even say it's a mindset thing. So, what we had to do in order to come up with solutions like solar integration was to really start from scratch and be like to say, okay, of course we have the experience from the past, but we start from scratch.
And we rethink our concept of a car or what a car can do. But now coming to the question of like the impact from each person, I do think telling the story had a great impact on us. People like who not only reserved the car, but talked about it and share thoughts, made a huge impact on us and on the world.
Yeah. And I would, I would still keep that I would say what we are made up of people that say I'm part of that change and independently how a country can contribute to them.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:38:57]
Building a product as complicated as a car is obviously a skill. But there is a chance that it could just become a new product in an existing system.
And that's not Sono's mission, their car needs to do something different. It needs to change mindsets and ultimately change the prevailing and deep dependence that we have built as a society around cars. Basically, you can make a different kind of car, but how do you make a car that can help change the system and the infrastructure when it comes to mobility?
I share a car actually with a neighbor, but actually the relationship of sharing a car is actually quite easy, but it's also the system around. It is not so geared toward sharing a car. You know, you can only get one insurance, you can only get one parking permit.
So, you know, all these things is like, it's almost like it's not just the people who want to do it, but that the system needs to change for it to happen. I thought maybe you could tell me a little bit more about from your perspective, there's open surface. Like my app is like, I can, you can take over so many services that are happening, but what, how has the system needs to change?
Jona Christians:
[00:40:02]
That's such a good question. It directly hits into like the very middle of what we are focused on because exactly what you're saying is we want to offer the people the tools, right? Because we believe that people will make something great and beautiful out of it. So, the same goes for the car, but also goes for the sharing aspect.
We want to focus on enabling people to build up their own communities, where we focus on providing the needed infrastructure or help at least with the insurance. Right and help with the billing and so forth. So you can really easily set up you know, your own sharing community.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:40:43]
It sounds like the car in that way becomes almost a means to empower people.
Cause there's also an element that I read about how do you fix the car when it's broken, how have you approached a maintenance?
Jona Christians:
[00:40:59]
We focused on three pillars for maintenance. We said, first of all, we want to make sure the car can be repaired wherever you are. And that's why we say we want to open the service handbook.
And we also have a website where you can order the parts. However, of course, in that regard, you need to have the skills to repair the car. And especially when it comes to high voltage, you need a certification for that. So that's the second pillar. The second pillar is we also build upon the open workshops like our, our code-less web.
They also need access to the service handbook and all of a sudden need access to the park, but a very willing to repair your car. But the third one, the third one is like the one that is very, for the people who do not want to have nothing to do with the repair, simply get it repaired. And this is like, we work together with a service partner where can give the car and get it repaired and after a couple of days you get back. So that's like the very, let's say simple version, but also to have like different options for different needs. That is our way for the maintenance system. We had yesterday, no, today, today it closed. We had people voting and signing in or handing in ideas what they can build up on that big, like special features add-ons and so forth.
This is the kind of thinking, right? This is the community building we have here.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:42:32]
Nice, I was going to say that like the Sion parts for the future project where you're crowdsourcing also ideas.
Jona Christians:
[00:42:40]
Yes, exactly. It's really incredible. Like I don't know how exactly the website is spelled out, but when you look for design paths for the future, you will find it.
It's crazy. Really. I looked through this idea and I was so amazed by how unique and fresh these ideas really incredible ideas with are like, man. This is what I like when I could dream of something. This is really the dream becoming true, people, seeing this as a base and building something on top of it.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:43:11]
It's nice. It's almost like we've come full circle to this ownership idea of like, it's almost a democratic approach to designing the car because people could actually vote on what they liked.
With every guest, they get to ask a question to my next guest. My previous guest was Carrie Chan who's using lab grown fish, as a way to feed the population and also the address the issue of overfishing. But her question was about how to bring innovation into big corporations. Cause she says they may not have a system in place or corporate innovation team or capital or people who can internalize innovation.
So, her question, and I think it was more wondering from her perspectives, like how to incorporate innovation processes into bigger businesses?
Jona Christians:
[00:44:01]
Well, what I experienced when working in the sector, in this automotive sector, there are a lot of like really old companies like, but all companies in some way or the other have a shift at the moment, some quicker, some slower.
But we are working together with a lot of great partners that also already are taking part in that shift and the change. But what really made the difference that has to go through the whole company, including of course the top management, it cannot go without it, like, otherwise it becomes just an empty shell.
And phrases that you claim and then write on your walls. It doesn't work really. If that doesn't work then, alternatives will show. I mean, Tesla was one of them, right. We're waking up the whole industry.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:44:53]
Yeah, my experience is like a lot of companies are very reactive when it comes to change. So it's also like how can you make companies more proactive, you know, rather than when it's too late, when there's a crisis.
Jona Christians:
[00:45:02]
But especially that, when that combination of Tesla being there 10 years ago, or now, like in the past year was really hitting the market once when we then approached some suppliers and so forth. They were already like having that mindset shift happening because they were like, okay, the first one we missed. There, we were reactive.
Now we want to be active. And that's why also a lot of companies work together with us because they said, now we want to take part in it and not simply wait.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:45:30]
You have your opportunity to ask my next guest a question?
Jona Christians:
[00:45:36]
Well I had one question that I always liked to ask if you walk on the street and on the other side of the street, you see your 16 year old self, what would you tell or ask that 16 year old self and he would not recognize you.
He would not know who you are. Simply a stranger. Okay. What would you ask that person or tell that person?
Tessa Wernink:
[00:45:57]
Nice, I like it. Ask or tell it can be both. This is like advice or like the advice goes both ways.
It's been so nice to just learn more about your company and to be able to speak to you and, Yeah, it's always a choice to go, whether to go deep into the innovation and technology or deep into the person.
So, I hope I got a little bit of both, so thank you for yeah, for this interview.
Jona Christians:
[00:46:24]
Thank you too, it was a pleasure.
Tessa Wernink:
[00:46:28]
This episode is just one of many interviews recorded for this podcast series. Go to whatifwegetitright.com to hear more stories from people around the world who are putting the health of the planet at the center of their business.
If you're ready to move forward, your own idea, you can download a planet centric design toolkit at Impossible.com.